Kimber joins us to vent about early days of social media, the awful Britney Spears memoir, venting vs. gossiping, faking cancer, and racist neighbors.

This episode features Chris and Kimber discussing a variety of topics, including their experiences with social media, their thoughts on Britney Spears’ memoir The Woman In Me, and the nuances between venting and gossiping. They also touch on the importance of vulnerability and authenticity in podcasts, using Jonathan “JVN” Van Ness from Queer Eye as an example. The hosts share their strategies for managing social media use and discuss the ethical implications of Britney Spears’ conservatorship. Additionally, they delve into personal experiences with problematic behavior, emphasizing the importance of standing up against sexism, homophobia, and racism.

Chris: Hello world. Welcome to Can We Complain, the podcast where we rant, gripe and talk smart to get you ramped up. In this episode, Kimber joins us to vent about the early days of social media, the awful Britney Spears memoir, venting versus gossiping, faking cancer and racist neighbors. Be sure to follow us on the socials @canwecomplain and let us know what drives you crazy. See you on the flip side. Can we complain? Can we, can we complain? Can we complain?

Kimber: I thought you admitted to ally that it was a multi-million dollar production.

Chris: Well know but I’m a know m a liar and a fraud. Welcome back.

Kimber: Hello. I’m glad to be back with you.

Chris: Are you happy to be here?

Kimber: Very happy.

Chris: I wanna ask you. Mhm. We our first episode that we recorded together has come out and have you heard anything from anyone that, that you want to share? Like, are you like, oh my gosh, people are saying it’s fun. People are saying it’s terrible. Have you heard anything for people?

Kimber: Um, I’ve had quite a few people tell me that it’s fun and also just like people that I have disconnected with in my life, you know, over time, um, for whatever reason that have actually reached out and said it was like fun to listen and like kind of feel like they were catching up with me again. So that was kind of cool.

Chris: Yeah. I you imagine because you’re like hearing the voice of someone that maybe at one time you were closer with.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And so that is cool. I like that. Um, I have heard only positive things and um, I would say a little vague. The feedback for me has been pretty vague but positive. Like people are like, oh my gosh, it’s so fun. It feels like I’m sitting there, um, during a conversation, like in a backyard or on a deck or hanging out with you, which I appreciate u um, that at least no one has been like, oh my gosh, I have no idea what you’re doing or talking about.

Kimber: Well, I think one thing is like I listen to a lot of heavy podcasts. I listen to a lot of true crime, but also, you know, like light hearted true crime where it’s like, you know, kind of they’re making jokes about stuff in an appropriate way. But I do listen to a lot of heavy podcasts. So even when I’ve listened to the other episodes that I was not on, it was nice and light, heartted and relatable and fun.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: You know, like easy to listen to. Yeah.

Chris: I guess. I hate to say it, I Sound like such a cliche, But I listened to shows that have drag queens and, um, other homosexuals. The one that I listened to over Christmas break that I really liked, um, is getting curious with jvn, um, from Queer Eye. Yeah, I love Queer Eye. Have you watched it?

Kimber: I am halfway through the newest season.

Chris: Um. Oh, my God, Jeremiah. Like, yes. I love him so much. Before this show, I’mnna say it. I didn’t necessarily have the highest opinion of him. I don’t know. I felt like, as a gay man, there are just certain cliches that when someone checks off all of these boxes, it can be a little easy to be like, I don’t know, they got toa win me over. Like, he’s attractive. He’s married to a successful, attractive man. They just have TV shows. They live in beautiful homes. They have children. You like? I’m like, okay, where is the real shit? Like, give me the nitty gritty. And I feel like I was introduced to him through JN’s podcast and then reintroduced to him, I should say. And then I watched the recent. The latest season of Queer Eye, and I am in love with him. I think he’s such a sweetheart. He cries every episode, and I’m crying when he’s crying. There’s an episode where he cries at the beginning, and then I started crying, and I’m like, this is not right.

Kimber: Same, like, he makes me get so teary so, like, easily. Because you can tell he’s just, like, such a tender soul.

Chris: Yes.

Kimber: I have watched pretty much, like, every off every show that, um, him and his husband have had. Nate Bekus.

Chris: Yes.

Kimber: And I really do love both of them, and their chemistry, like, on their shows is phenomenal.

Chris: Okay.

Kimber: Like, they’re really funny together. They definitely, like, pick on each other. You can feel that. Like, you can feel the love. You can also feel the tension in, like, a funny way. But I was thrilled when I saw that he was gonna be on Queer Eye. And I haven’t listened to Javian s podcast, and I should listen to their podcast.

Chris: Yes, I would recommend it because he also has u. Um, well, he has, like, a beauty one as well. And I’m not sure. I don’t. You know, unfortunately, I’m that guy that, like, gives myself buzz cut. So, like, I’m not. I’m not that audience. What I love about, um, JVN is that they are so genuine and, like, authentic and, once again, in tropes and gay stereotypes, I’m the kind of person where when I see someone like jvn, it’s it would be easy for me to be annoyed by their level of like, enthusiasm and gusto and care about everything and like so enthusiastic. But I don’t feel like that. I feel like it’s genuine from them. I feel like that’s how they actually are and I really enjoy that.

Kimber: I will say like one weird connection to jvn. Um, I have a friend who does hair in LA and used to work at a studio that was connected to JVN’s studio like Way back before, um, they were in Queer Eye. And it does sound like JVN’s the same O like acts that way in person and on the show. And that to me is kind of cool to hear. You know, you love hearing like that people are the same in person, right?

Chris: Yes. So, ah, so they always call JVN Jackie on the show and then on their podcast they referred to that way as well. And what I really like about their show is that Jackie’s really vulnerable about struggles and about mental health issues. Struggles about. Yes. And about navigating things and figuring things out. And that vulnerability and that transparency just allows for such a. I don’t, I don’t know if it’s a shared experience or like a made up connection. I don’t know what it is, but I.

Kimber: It’s really atol.

Chris: I really appreciate listening to their podcast and I highly recommend it. And I love that I’ve fallen in love with Jeremiah and I didn’t even know that it was possible for someone like me.

Kimber: Yeah, no, I love Jeremiah. I’m um, like one of him and Nate’s like biggest fans. I’ve watched like all their shows. So.

Chris: So with moving can we complain forward, I have found myself even spending more time on the socials because of pulling clips from episodes. And I created a TikTok account for this show.

Kimber: Oh, you did?

Chris: I totally did.

Kimber: I need to look at it.

Chris: Um, and so Now I have TikTok on my phone, which is just for the show. I don’t like, watch, uh, Tik Tooks or whatever I do, but I’ve just. Now I’ve had to, I hate to say I had to figure it out. It’s not like it’s rocket science, but every platform and I don’t like using those tools where they’re like, just pick a clip and we’ll put it on every platform. Because I know the organizations and the companies and the shows that do that. You can tell. And I don’t like their approach. There’s just. I’ve worked in marketing for a really long Time in the digital space. And I know when you see things like that where it’s like we just robo post to every platform. I’m like, I don’t care. Like, it’s just really easy way to like, lose interest. So I try to pull clips that I think are fun in the conte with or without context, who knows? And then share them in a variety of ways. Whatever. I’ve been spending more time on social media than I have for a long time. Yeah. Because, you know, it’s been around long enough where I think we’ve had awakenings of our social media use. Um, over the years, I’ve certainly waxed and waned. I am m on it more, I’m on it less. But right now I’m like, on my phone constantly because of can we complain and trying to post things, places and I don’t want to say constantly. That sounds like I’m a bit neurotic. But I have a more of an interest than, like, if you just share a story of like, you and your friends and then you kind of don’t care what happens to it, it’s like, well, I want to see people are actually paying attention, you know? Yeah.

Kimber: I mean, that’s kind of the whole point of a podcast, right? Is to have people listen and interact with the content and stuff. So, yeah, you’re checking up on it a little bit more. That makes sense.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: What is your current social media use?

Kimber: Okay, so I have a folder on my phone on like, my second page, and I have my social media apps, like, kind of hidden.

Chris: Okay.

Kimber: Like, they’re not super easy to get to. They’re in another folder. They’re on like, the third or fourth page and that folder even. So if I’m gonna check social media, I have to like, consciously be thinking about it to get to the app to use it. And that’s something that I started when I did realize that I was on social media way too often and I have taken hiatuses or I’ve deleted my Facebook, um, in particular a few times. But it doesn’t actually delete, you know, you can just like, reactivate it. Now I have been thinking about doing that again with Instagram because I find myself on Instagram a lot moreay than I am on Facebook anymore. The only time I go on Facebook is actually, like, to share stuff that’s relating to family because I have so many, like, extended family members that check Facebook that are older that are on there and like to see pictures of the kids and whatnot. Um, um, but yeah, I find myself on Instagram too much and you know, it isn’t super great for the self esteem sometimes.

Chris: Right, Right.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Now I do love that as a pro tip and a recommendation to put social media on a second or third page on the phone because I have my first page has no icons on it because I’m a nut job. So that like literally if you just open my phone there’s like nothing. Then you go to the next page where there are folders. The first one is like social media. So if there’s any notifications I see it. But if it was on the next page where I have to intentionally go, I would see it less. I would probably still battle with myself. I’d probably go to it all the time. Oh my gosh, I don’t know what to do.

Kimber: It just becomes habit. I have tried to break it like a few times and then I’ll, you know, m do something else instead to like replace that. Like I’ll go on Pinterest or something and you know, spend time that way. And that’s where Tik Toc actually has been kind of good for me because I mean, how old am I now? I’m 32. Think about it. I’m 32. So like, yes, I’m in the generation where like a lot of people have all of these like social media apps, but I actually don’t have a lot of my like friends that have TikTok. So I only have like two or three friends on my TikTok. And so if I’m on there, it’s like purely for me and not to be like trying to entertain others. I guess it’s more just fun.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: So TikTok’s been good in that way for me.

Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don’t feel the need to post or engage in a like meaningful way, then I guess that helps because it is almost more just like entertainment rather than interactive like social media stuff.

Kimber: Right. I had Facebook in high school and then I had um. Oh my God, people arenna scream at me, why can’t I?

Chris: Myace.

Kimber: Myace.

Chris: Yes. Tom.

Kimber: Tom. We were all friends with Tom. Um, MySpace, like geek. Like I knew how to code my own page. I knew everything.

Chris: It looked beautiful.

Kimber: It was so beautiful. And it had all the heart wrenching songs, you know, that were meant to be, um, for my crush that he probably never listened to. Y absolutely M and I was like an emo girl. So I had like all of the quintessential like pictures, like a heart drawn on my hand and I’m, like, standing on a toilet with, like, my feet in the photo, and I’m, like, holding the camera up really high. You know, that thing. But so I grew up, like, without it, but also with it when I was young. And so it’s definitely ingrained in me.

Chris: So when did you open your first? We’re not talking like, AIM M and like, uh, instant messenger, because that’s funny because, you know, that was also a thing about our time. Now I’m eight years older than you. I mean, I’m 40.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: So I’m older than you enough where these things weren’t happening at the same time in our development because there was a big difference between being 12 and 20. But not the, like, I am, um, I. I am the AOLs and the whatever. But my first social media plat, um, account was MySpace.

Kimber: Mine was MySpace.

Chris: And in Toa say it was 2004. It was the year I graduated in 03. So no one had social media while I was in high school. And then it was like, senior year, some people started getting MySpace. And I remember my friends and I were like, how lame. Like, if you need a life on the Internet, then you don’t have a life in the real world world, you know? And then, like a year later, I got a MySpace profile and I started up in a musician account, and I actually put demos from when I was in high school on there. And I had like half a million plays on my MySpace music player. And I was like, oh, my God, I’mn toa be a star. Which that didn’t work out, but MySpace was mine. And that was 2004.

Kimber: Yeah, I think that it was around the same time for me. I think it was, um, my last year in middle school, I had one. And that was, like, before. So, you know, my parents didn’t know anything about social media, right?

Chris: No.

Kimber: So we were getting social media, and this was right around the time where it’s like, your parents didn’t know enough to be checking up on it. And so, my God, you know, like, the people you’re adding that you don’t know, the people you’re talking to, uh, that you don’t know. And I definitely got, like, catfished a few times by, like, I don’t know if they were old men sitting behind a computer, like, probably. But that definitely happened to me.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Actually, like, um, after the one instance, I was so freaked out by it because when I started realizing. And nowadays this would be so obvious, right? But I had on my page, you know, everything about me And I was like a music theater person. I was obsessed with like the Phantom of the Opera and like all of this. And I exchanged aim um information with somebody that I added on social media. And their main profile picture was Jeremy Sumter, which, like, come on, I should have freickin known. Like I had a huge crush on him. So this is why I think it might have even been somebody that I went to school with that was like fucking with me. Right.

Chris: Oh my God.

Kimber: And I was so weirded out once I started putting the things together that this person was saying were from my profile. And like, it was just so obvious after talking to this person for probably like a couple of weeks. And I just felt like such an idiot. But this was before catfishing was even like called catfishing probably. You know, And I even like looked online for a number or like where I could report like a fake profile or report like potential, like child molester shit. I don’t even know what I was looking for, but I was just like. I knew it was wrong and I was creeped out.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: And I couldn’t find anything anywhere.

Chris: Well, absolutely. I’m sure there. There probably wasn’t one.

Kimber: No.

Chris: I don’t know.

Kimber: And like, how old are you in like eighth grade? Uh, 13.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Yeah. I think you probably turned 13. Like, can you freaking imagine? Like, uh, okay, Even if it was somebody that I went to school with, like, how creepy to like go through my page and like do all of that work and talk to me like that. And this is like the Internet’s brand new, so can you even like just think of all of the shit that happened before there were terms for it like catfishing or like all of that. I don’t know. It’s creepy.

Chris: Well, and in a way, I do hope it was someone from school.

Kimber: I o. I do, you know what I mean?

Chris: As opposed to like an adult who does that. Because adults do that and it’s so weird. The motivation behind catfishing.

Kimber: Yeah. Like, it’very very, uh, odd.

Chris: Especially when I think about it. I feel like there’s some like, diabolical undertone. Like there’s some negative evil something, you know, it’s whatever. But then when I hear about most stories, I think there’s something about getting money from particularly vulnerable or elderly people.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: But outside of that, I’m like, ah, these people don’t. What do they get from it? What do you get?

Kimber: I think that a lot of them have like low self esteem and just don’t think that people would be interested in them. If they’re portraying themselves for who they really are.

Chris: Right.

Kimber: But that obviously doesn’t make it right. And it’s still just as damaging to the person who was catfished. I mean, I was scared like I was a little kid. And when I realized like that, uh, somebody was doing this to me, even if it would have been, you know, a student that I went to school with that was like messing with m me or had a crush on me or whatever, they still scared the shit out of me. And now like, that is something that I think about. And you know, as a mom now, I do think about those things. Like, there’s the whole debate of, you know, should you post pictures of your children online?

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: And I question that sometimes. You know, I put pictures of my kids on my personal, like, private page for family to seee. Um, but, you know, you do think about that.

Chris: I know a friend of mine, well, not a close friend, someone who I’m connected to on Facebook from many years ago. They blur their kids face on photos. A lot of people don that they put online. And it’s really interesting because it’ll be like, here’s our family in the. Like, they’ll put up a series of four or five photos. So it’s like a post and they’re all at the lake and they’re having so much fun and all of the miners faces are bl blurred and it looks a little creepy. But I’m also like, I get it.

Kimber: I don’t post people’s like my friends, for instance. If I take a picture of my kids with their kids, I asked permission before I would put it anywhere.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Um, I wouldn’t just be like, oh, can I post this picture of your kid? You knoweah. Um, that’s definitely something that I think about now. A lot of people do it because they say their kids can’t consent to their picture being online.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Uh, and until your child can consent to it, then they shouldn’t have their photos online.

Chris: Yeah, fair enough.

Kimber: I also, I’m of the mindset that, you know, shit’s everywhere now. Like things are literally everywhere. I don’t think that you can avoid it. I think people that are crazy about their data and certain stuff, I’m like, too fucking late. Have you logged ono the Internet? Too late, Too late.

Chris: Yeah, yeah, I know. I think what’s weirder than family content is when a business or like a school. Yeah, schools posting minors on the Internet wigs me out. And even with parental consent, I go like, this feels weird. I’m not into it.

Kimber: Yeah. I think they have to have releases now. Like a photo release has to be signed. Even at daycares. Yeah, they had to ask us. Um, at, uh, like the big center that we went to for a while there was a photo release.

Chris: Right.

Kimber: That you could sign or choose to not sign.

Chris: Yeah. But even with getting people’s permission, I feel like every once in a while, because I’m from a small town in the Midwest and randomly someone will share something of a. Like the tech school or the high school. And there’s like, people where I’m like, I m just don’t think that these people might even know that their photo is being used like this. And it kind of wigs me out.

Kimber: I don’t know. What was your MySpace name? Was it your name or was it like, something funny?

Chris: I think it was just my full name without spaces or anything. O. Because I wanted to be a musician, right? So, like, I had this musician account. And when I was younger, I was be like, what should my stage name be? And by the time I was out of high school, my friends were like, you have a really cool name. Why would you even have a stage name? And I’m like, oh, yeah. So then I just decided to use it. So at the beginning, it was all just my name. Yeah.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: What was yours?

Kimber: Ms. Primaonna Kimberly.

Chris: Ms. Prima Donna.

Kimber: Prima Donna Kimber Kimberly.

Chris: Wow.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: That’s a mouthful. Very fancy today. They’d be like, that does. We’re limiting your char. Your characters.

Kimber: Oh, my gosh. What was your AOL name or your AM name?

Chris: So I don’t. I grew up out in the middle of nowhere where my parents had dial up until, uh, I don’t. I was out of the house before they even had high speed Internet. So like, there was. I never had like, uh, a ao. I don’t think I had that. But I did have it. My friend, uh, a friend of mine from middle school, Brooke, and I went over to her house and we made an account to go into AOL chat rooms. We were so young. I think we were in like eighth grade. And we called the account Hot Horny Horr. And it was H H and it was. The username was like triple H. And then we spelled Hot Horny hre but whore didn’t have a W because we didn’t even know that we were spelling it wrong because we were so young. And so we went into chat rooms. So we were like, hot horny hor here. Like 17, female, whatever, 34 female, whatever. We just made Shit up. And what’s funny is because we were being so playful, nothing bad ever came of it. But when I look back on it, I’m like, hot horny H. Like, we would, like, see each other in school and be like, triple H. That is so funny.

Kimber: Oh, my God. That’s pretty good.

Chris: What was yours?

Kimber: I Look. What was yours? Okay, tell me if you get this, because nobody did. I always had to expl It Tssssssss. Like, lots of s’let. It burn.

Chris: I would just let it burn.

Kimber: Let it burn.

Chris: Nobody.

Kimber: It.

Chris: What is that even?

Kimber: I don’t know. Like, you like. Like your finger put on your butt. Like, let it bur.

Chris: All right, well, that’s. Yeah, that’s good.

Kimber: That’s ridiculous.

Chris: And it’s so ridiculous, I don’t even remember. Cause the names of the chat rooms were also so strange. We would, like, try to find one where we would be able to talk to, like, lurking adult men, you know? And, uh, I don’t think we were ever really successful in anything. We’d never had a goal.

Kimber: I mean, you probably did talk to some lurking old men that.

Chris: Absolutely, we probably did. And we probably had nothing to say. And they probably had nothing to say.

Kimber: Yeah. I mean, you think, like, back at that time too, right? Like, I think of the type of person that would have had to have had the wherewithal to be online trying to do that.

Chris: Right, Right.

Kimber: Like, it takes a certain type of person to be like, oh, this newfangled Internet. And m the aim. And I’m gonna get my crusty ass in the seat and talk, you know? God, yes. Yuck.

Chris: To Catch a Predator.

Kimber: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Chris: Oh, my God. Can’I. Can never remember that host s name, but I’m gonna share the meme on our accounts ofes when he walks in and he’s like, hello. And it’s like, oh, my gosh, there he is. The people would be like, oh, God, I’m busted. And it’s like, yeah, you’re trying to meet a teenager off the Internet.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And thenember. I remember how you might be too young, but when I was in middle school, whitehouse.com was a porn site.

Kimber: I do remember people talking about that.

Chris: Yes. And so we would go to the library, and we would go to each computer that was open and go to whitehouse.com do and then walk away from it. Give it up. Because we were like, if we get in trouble, they’re gonna be like, I’ll be like, well, I was just trying to find out Information about the president.

Kimber: Oh, my gosh.

Chris: And then also madonna.com was a porn site. Was it? Right. And she sued and she got.

Kimber: Oh, I bet.

Chris: Well, I’m sure there was a bunch of those domain lawsuits where people were like, the government, some judge was like, you can’t actually have this domain. Like, you can’t have whitehouse.com and have it be porn.

Kimber: I mean, uh, it was brand spanking new. Everybody was figuring it out.

Chris: Land of the free, home of the brave. This is America.

Kimber: I can’t believe that after all these years with the Internets that the wicked thing happened on Barbies.

Chris: Have you heard about this wicked thing happened on, um, Barbies.

Kimber: Barbie released their Wicked dolls. And the back. On the back of the dolls, it was like, go to wicked.com for, like, movie details. And it was a porn site. And they literally had to, like, recall the Barbies. And it’s like, what the heck? How did that even happen? How did that get by anybody?

Chris: Yeah, uh, someone at Mattel either got reprimanded or fired because that was some quality assurance that was not done.

Kimber: Well, sometimes when stuff like that happens two year, like, did this person, like, just say fuck it all and do it?

Chris: Oh, gosh. Like, if it was like, I know I’m leaving here in two weeks, so I’m just gonna, like, be like, who cares?

Kimber: I’m gonna do this.

Chris: Oh, my gosh.

Kimber: O.

Chris: Uh, that sounds like great justice for a business that’s fucked you over. I don’t know.

Kimber: Right?

Chris: Just throwing that out there. I would never. I would never, never. I would never. Something happened recently where I was. There was a headline about Michelle Williams, how she could win a Grammy for doing the voice of narration on Britney Spears’memoir Now, I don’t know if that was for this year or last year. I’m not sure what year it was, but I saw some headline about, oh, you know, Michelle Williams. She could be nominated for a Grammy for Britney Spears’memoir I didn’t even know.

Kimber: That was a category, but okay, yeah, like, spoken wor. Spoken word, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

Chris: Um, and it got me thinking about how middle school was the time when Brittanney was like, a thing and social media wasn’t really a thing when she came out. But the book. I’m hung up on the book in the sense that it was such a cultural phenomenon. And we are like a year late talking about this. Like, this is not. This is not going to be keyword and hell to benefit us in any way. But at the end of the day, I purchased the book, mhm, Physical copy. And then I guess the same day that it arrived or something I got a digital version, um, on Audible or whatever I had for have on my phone for listening to books which I don’t even have a membership to anymore. I’m just so on top of it. Um, and I listened to this memoir from Britney Spears and I thought that the first 2/3 of the book were okay. I felt like I was listening to. Well, speaking of middle school and speaking of being young and not knowing what you’re doing, it sounded like it was written by an eighth grader at the best, uh, maybe like fifth or sixth grade. Like it was poorly written. And knowing that this book had gone through the processes in the publishing house, it might have been rushed because maybe they wanted to get it out.

Kimber: I feel like obviously rushed to me.

Chris: Okay. But because I remember hearing about this book long before it came out and so that’s always interesting to me. Like does that mean that they’re so far ahead of their horses? Which it could be that the book isn’t even written and they’re plugging it when they should probably allow a. Ah, pop star who is literally like has been in a um. What is the, the conservatorship In a conservatorship. Like someone who has been found. Whatever. She has been found. Okay. This girl is. She’s writing a book.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Okay, she’s writing a book. Do you plug that book before the book is written? I’m not so sure. I don’t think you do, but whatever. So she writes a book, quote unquote, whoever she had help her write this book, blah, blah.

Kimber: She had multiple ghostwriiters, I believe.

Chris: I would not be surprised to hear that multiple people helped to write this book. Even with that help, you get 2/3 the way through listening to the book, as I did. I did not physically read the book on um, paper. I listened to the audiobook.

Kimber: Huh.

Chris: And I’m listening and I’m listening and he gets 2/3 done. And I’m like, okay, I can barely stomach this because I have an interest in who Britney Spears is as a pop star and as like a cultural figure. I’m going to continue listening. The whole Free Britney movement thing was um, it got my attention enough for me to be like, okay, I want to hear this story. I really want to hear this story. And as I’m listening to it, I’m just like constantly distracted by how little detail there is. The detail that is provided is weird and strange and then you get to the last third of the book, and it goes downhill from there. I remember there was one part where she’s like, you. I was an independent person doing whatever I wanted. And then I was a slave, captured and whatever. And I’m like, who were you? Were you some smart, captivating person who, like, became a pop star and did all this shit? Or were you someone who was constantly beat down and told what to do? And it just. There was a lack of clarity at all from the end of the book. I was like, I don’t know how to feel about this at all. I just heard a book read to me by someone who is a good vocal talent.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Michelle Williams was great at reading that book, but the book was written by a child.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And wasn’t good.

Kimber: Do you believe, like, what people are saying that based on when she was put into her conservatorship and, like, when all of this, like, you know, traumatic stuff started happening to her and basically that she was, like, fed drugs and kept quiet. Do you think that people are correct in saying that she’s, like, stunted at that age of her life and that that’s partly why, like, the voice comes across that way? Because she’s still, like, in her mind’s eye, like, that age, like, 18 or, you know, whatever age she was when, like, the trauma started setting in.

Chris: I mean, I think there’s a level of truth to that.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Um, I don’t know that it’s that simple, because if I recall correctly, there were times in her twenties where she didn’t sound like she does today.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And there was some emotional, psychological, whatever development happening with her in her early adult life.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: It’s hard to say because I do think there’s. I don’t think she was allowed to be a young adult.

Kimber: Right.

Chris: In, like, a normal sense. I think there were many developmental things that were missed. But when I see videos of her today in 2025, the year of our Lord, she shares videos and she sounds literally like mentally unwell person.

Kimber: Does. Yeah. And looks like it.

Chris: Uh, as. And she looks like it. And the physicalness is what it is. And I am. I am not advocating for a conservatorship. Uh, yeah, I’m not advocating that she be locked up or whatever. I’m just saying when you look at who she is today, what she puts out to the public for whatever perception of her she wants the world to have or something, those are those. It’s not good choices. It seems like she is younger in her mentality now than she was at like 25.

Kimber: Let’right.

Chris: I feel like there’s almost been like a backtracking.

Kimber: I think so too. I mean, she was on like high doses of lithium, she says. Right. So like, that stuff long term, like really, really messes with your brain. I do think that there’s like, potential. I don’t want to see brain damage. I don’t, I don’t want it to sound like I’m, you know.

Chris: Right.

Kimber: Diagnosing or like saying anything. But I do think for how like, long she was put on some of these drugs and especially if she didn’t really need them, like, you know, it definitely messed with her brain chemistry. Now I do think this is still super relevant today. I think people were scared to talk about it during the Free Britney movement, that maybe she’s still actually did need help. I think that people were like all gung ho about the Free Brittney movement as they should have been. Because a conservator like her father taking over is disgusting. Definitely. I think was completely wrong and, yeah, disgusting. And he took advantage.

Chris: And I think there’s no way that you could be in a conservatorship and work the way she did. That makes no sense.

Kimber: Right.

Chris: It’s literally illogical.

Kimber: Yeah, there’s absolutely no way. I mean, I worked in like the mental health realm for a few years and it’s not easy to get put in a conservatorship. Um, and usually then it ends up being, you know, like a third party or there’s some protections in place to, you know, help that person. Yeah, to keep, you know, because abuse is a huge thing.

Chris: Yes.

Kimber: Um, in those situations, abuse of money, um, you know, resources, like that type of thing. Um, um. But also just, you know, like abuse in general. But I, I don’t know, like, I have a hard time with the fact that people were so gung ho about like, Free Brity. Get her out. But then where did the help continue after that? Yeah, I feel like she was like hung out to dry. I don’t think that she was ready to write this book. I don’t think she’s even been ready to fully trace, face her truth and the trauma. And that’s why we got such a shallow book because she hadn’t even had time to face that or like contemplate like, what really happened to her. And I still don’t think she has. And that’s why we’re seeing what we’re seeing from her.

Chris: Yeah, that totally makes sense because the stories as they were told in this Book I felt there was a lack of. When you read a memoir, when you read someone’s story, you want to hear about the things that you couldn’t just find on fucking Wikipedia or something. And half of the stories in this book were, like, summarizing events. Like, there was less than half of the stories in that book. I don’t know prove me wrong if I’m wrong world. But less than half of the stories I heard in that book provided any new detail that would have been interesting to know from Britney’s perspective. Like, a lot of it was like, and then I did this and then I did that, and it was like, what?

Kimber: Like, other than the shshmorten part?

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Like, I don’t think that was any new news to anybody.

Chris: Right?

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Well, when I look back, there were a couple examples from times with her mom that I wasn’t aware of as a. A casual Britney Spears fan, let’s say. Like, I’m not a hater on Britanney. I guess so. And I like plenty of her songs. So, you know, whatever. Uh, the reason I always was annoyed with Britanney was that I felt like people were like, oh, she’s such a, um. Like, children are supposed to. What is that called?

Kimber: A role model?

Chris: She. Yes. The reason it drove me nuts about Brittanney was the whole notion that she’s some sort of role model or something. And I grew up with role models that were pop stars that had things to say, were, like, in control of their career and were decision makers and influencers. And she felt like someone who showed up, it could. They could have just plugged anyone into Brittney’s role as long as she could dance, and she would have been the same thing. And it was annoying to me that it was like, oh, she’s such a role model. It’s like, she’s not a role model. There’s not a lot of women in this world should strive to be like, I don’t make decisions, and I’m not in control, and I don’t know anything. That’s not a thing to strive for. So I was always annoyed with that.

Kimber: I don’t think any pop star should really be a role model for young children. And I think that’s where a lot of people go wrong. Like, yeah, oh, what are the kids gonna think? Oh, the kids are gonna want to wear this. Well, why don’t we teach our children better than that? Because it’s not this lady’s fault that she wants to wear what she’s wearing. And your Kid is looking up to it. Like, whose fault is that? Yeah, provide a real role model for your fucking child then as far as I’m concerned.

Chris: Preach. No, Amen.

Kimber: Like it shouldn’t be like, you know, it shouldn’t come down to like Britany having to defend herself in interviews. Like she had to.

Chris: Very true.

Kimber: Because parents think she’s a role model. Like they’re the idiots in my opinion.

Chris: Yes, well, amen. But with her book specifically, um, there was a few stories about when she was a teenager or a preteen with her mom that I found to be interesting because her m apparently based on this book, her mother, uh, would drink with her when she was quite young. And I thought that was interesting because it seems like such a counter to the way that Britanney’s ness is like, you know, she is so juvenile. She seems so kind of like lightearted and innocent and I couldn’t imagine taking some 12 or 13 year old and being like, let’s get you drunk.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Like what would even be the purpose of that? Like ye seems strange to me that is his own form of abuse.

Kimber: Frankly.

Chris: I don’t know anyone that’s getting their kid fucked up at 12 or 13.

Kimber: No.

Chris: Especially one that’s like, obviously not emotionally advanced. Like. Yeah, very strange. Very strange. I don’t even know why I’m saying especially. That’s just weird.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: In general.

Kimber: In general, it’s odd. I mean we all had friends, parents growing up that wanted to be their kid friend instead of the parent. Right. And did stupid things that now as a parent, I’m like, wow, I can’t believe that.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Um, my friend’s parent let us do that or did that with us or you know, whatever.

Chris: But like getting drunk with your 13 year old. I’m sorry, I’m go goingna judge you for that.

Kimber: As you should. Yeah. I mean it’s proven and there’s studies that show what the alcohol like effects on an underdeveloped brain are. There’s a reason that there’s a drinking age. Like let’s be real.

Chris: I also found there were things that I didn’t know about her relationship with Justin Timberlake.

Kimber: Mhm.

Chris: Um, the schmish morion yeahion. Why are we saying abortion is there?

Kimber: I don’t know.

Chris: I just say that like uh, are, are this. The uh, censor is gonna come in and shut.

Kimber: I don’t know. I just, I just say yes.

Chris: Okay. Yes. I don’t know. There were details about the abortion and about the relationship that were new I suspect from the publisher’s perspective, that was probably like the first bullet point on the, like, get list is like, we need details of your story with Justin. If not, you’re not going to get this paycheck, you know?

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Um, so that was interesting. I guess I did feel bad for her. Like, I felt like she probably didn’t feel like she had choices. And that’s like the opposite of what being pro choice means. As a pro choice person who thinks anyone who needs or wants to have an abortion should have an abortion.

Kimber: Agree. Yeah.

Chris: Uh, that felt wrong and icky on many levels. And so those were some details. But then it’s almost like I said, the last third of the book, it’s like there’s this whole kind of just time period that passes and there’s no details, there’s nothing new, there’s no anything.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And I just remember the book was done and I was like, I think everyone thinks they’re supposed to like this book, but it’s not very good.

Kimber: Right. And I think that was a big part of it. And that’s why it feels safe talking about it now. Kind of because we’re out of the craze of it. Right.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: I do think that people felt like they had to pretend to like it based on her situation and also based on like, you know, the pro choiceness of, like, that situation that we were fed. Um. Cause it was a lot to digest, like, knowing that this pop star that you do, like, you know, like, love, like, a lot of people feel like they love her and grew up with her. And I definitely was one of those people. I had like, every single CD and, um, loved, um, like every single one of her songs. I, like, really, really liked her. Um, um, so it’s, you know, it’s hard to hear that that happened to her.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Um. Um. I will say, though, and this is gonna be an unpopular opinion. Justin was young too. He also had people he had to answer to.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: This was back in the day. People forget where your publicist, where your team was like, in charge of you. They owned you, they owned your career. You had to do what they said. You didn’t have social media like we were talking about, so you couldn’t advocate for yourself. You couldn’t put your own feelings, your own thoughts out there. Things were let out to the press, paparazzi were called on purpose.

Chris: Um, if you did let things out on yourself, you looked crazy.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: They literally did that to Britney.

Kimber: Y. They manipulated.

Chris: Yes. Yes.

Kimber: Yeah. Because you didn’t have your Own narrative. You didn’t have anywhere to put your own narrative out there. It was put out for you by your publicist. So I do believe. And we obviously have not heard just ins side of things. And I know there’s a huge hate train for Justin and like, things have gotten worse with him with the drinking and driving whatnot. But I do think that he was a child as well still, you know, like, he was in this world too. He was raised in the same world, the same, like Mickey Mouse Club. Like he, uh, was doing what he was told as well. And people need to remember that.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: I don’t think it’s fair to come at him like, as hard as they have and to make fun of him for singing a song to her. Like, imagine being that age and you’re in this crazy situation. You only have a couple people to talk to. Cause you can’t trust people. You don’t know who you can tell. Um, and he thinks he’s doing the best thing in that moment too. And so for people to drag him like they did about that and make fun of him like I did kind of feel bad for him in that moment too.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: That’s. This might not have been what he wanted to.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: You know.

Chris: Well, and I, I hear what you’re saying.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And I agree. I’m curious what Justin could have done year ago.

Kimber: Right.

Chris: To have responded in a way that would have been a little more palatable.

Kimber: Because I think that’s the issue.

Chris: Well, this is it. Because, uh, Because I pretty much agree with you. I mean, I don’t think he’s some bad guy. I think that they were two pop stars that were having a relationship and she had to have an abortion because she was pregnant. I don’t think it was like his fault. I don’t think it was anybody’s fault of anything. It was their managers and whoever’s fault. So cool or not uncool. But what was Justin supposed to do a year ago? I think his avoidance and um, his kind of whateverness didn’t sit well with people. But I don’t know what would have said well with people.

Kimber: Yeah. I feel like he probably could have released a statement saying, you know, like, this is as much as I’m willing to share of my side of the story and like, please respect that. But I, I do think too maybe, uh, it would have gone a long way for him to reach out to her. And who knows if he did that or not. He might, he very well could have. And nobody knows. Um, because I kind of think, you know, it similarly went with like the little sister with like Jamie Lynn where she got dragged and we don’t know that side of the story either. And people say, oh well, we don’t care. She’s a shitty person. Look what she did to her co star. Look what she did. She was a fucking teenager.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: These are such young peopled. And to be judging her now, she’s like a 30 year old, 30 something year old womanah and for her older sister too to still be pulling out this narrative of her little sister who is like nine years younger than her. So imagine that age gap right when you are where you’re at and people say she should have helped her sister, she should have done this and that those were her fucking parents too. What do you think they were doing to her?

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

Kimber: Like nobody really knows what was going on. And so I, my problem with the book, I will say is the people that were thrown under the bus that I think were like kind of scapegoats, um, and they didn’t do right by her. They probably could have done better for her, you know, as far as her sister and like the Justin situation goes. But I don’t think it’s fair to uh, completely blame those people that were in similar situations and young and going through crap too.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: You know.

Chris: Yeah. Juxtaposed to someone like her father.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Who was clearly taking advantage of a situation.

Kimber: Clear. Had a problem with alcohol and stuff too.

Chris: Right. And like if that’ your value of your child is to have them be almost like a possession to perform and to make money, that is, that’s not okay. I don’t know anyone who heard this story and thought his actions were okay. No, I certainly don’t. Um, and then their business manager, whoever that woman was, is. Yeah, she sounds like a mess too. Like there were a lot of nasty people involved in this. And I think people do latch onto the Justin and the sistere when they were also young people. Part of the same.

Kimber: And the little sister being nine years younger, like come on. If you don’t think that is a huge difference in that she probably was scared, probably confused too. Like what the fuck do I even do? What power do I have? I’m a little sister. My sister is three years older than me. And if you would look back on when we were uh, in high school together, we had one year of high school together. The shit that we said and did to each other and the things that, you know, my older sister did to me that I know she regrets, uh, now Being older, it’s sibling shit. And when there’s that big of an age gap, like, come on, like, have some compassion for your, like, sibling that went through, like, yeah, they might have had it better than you did because you had money and helped your parents buy a house and stuff, but, like, she’s still living with those parents that you lived with. Like, you have completely different life experiences at nine years apart, but you should still be able to, uh, have compassion for your sibling. I feel like. I don’t know, it’s just weird.

Chris: I didn’t think about how her younger sister was still being raised by one or both of these parents. Even after, like, while Britanney’s in whatever stage, she is, like, her little sister still going through probably similar things.

Kimber: Yeah. Well, in. If I was, you know, looking, uh, at, uh, my sister, you know, my sister had, like, a really good relationship with me as we got older. And, like, you know, we would confide in each other and, like, people tell people tell each other, like, you know, shit that happened or whatever, like, at home. And, you know, my sister moved out, and I’m three years younger, so I’m still in the house. And my parents, you know, ended up going through a divorce. I ended up kind of being the one that dealt with all of that. My sister’s gone at college, you know, how many hours away. So, like, we did have completely different experiences, like, as far as our high school years go, just based on that alone. Andeah. Um. But now that we’re older, we can, like, sit with that together and be like, yeah, like, we love the shit out of each other. We did stupid stuff to each other, but we are family. And I don’t. I don’t subscribe to the whole, like, oh, you shouldn’t cut family off, because sometimes people have really shitty family members that they need to cut out of their lives that are toxic and horrible. But I think that Britanney in this book, forgot to have compassion for her sister.

Chris: Sure.

Kimber: And as a little sister, when I was reading this book, and then I made the mistake of going online and looking at, you know, like, comments on Jamie Lyn’s stuff.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: The things people were saying to her, I’m like, this is exactly what Britney said she, like, had happened to her. Like, the death. Death threats, the paparazzi shit and the following her and being mean. And now people are doing this to your little sister. And, like, you’re not condemning it, right?

Chris: Well, hearing you talk about things with your sister. I’m the oldest, and I have Two younger brothers, and we have different journeys with our parents. Um, we’ve expressed to each other, like, my middle brother, uh, is like, well, I learned what not to do because I saw you getting in trouble. And so I knew what to avoid. To avoid that he’s still got in some trouble, but not nearly as much as me. And he probably did. Did just as much stupid shit. He just knew what to avoid with them. And then my youngest brother was the baby and he kind of just got away with everything in the sense that I think parents kind of get beat down a little bit. Like, they kind of, I hate to say care less, because it’s not that they care less about the person, but they’re less like, about the structure and the rules and the whatever. And so he kind of just floated by with things. So we’ve had different relationships with our parents as adolescents, and then we became adults. So if I was to be writing a book at this point in my life, talking about my parents, my siblings would be like, we would be so much more aligned than disaligned with our. Because, like, now as adults, when we talk about, like, oh, can you believe he did this? Or like, I remember this story from 30 years ago or 20 years ago or 10 years ago, or, can you believe mom or dad just did this yesterday? Or like, isn’t this funny? Or isn’t this whatever. We’re like, so much more on the same page. So that also makes me sad for them as a family that just as siblings for whatever happened to them, that they don’t have some sort of shared experience, at least hating their parents together or something.

Kimber: Yeah, like having that person to commiserate. Like, look, you know, we went through different things, you know, especially with this big age gap, but yeah, we can still, like, overcome this and, like, love each other and have this, you know.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Shared trauma in a sense. Like, and.

Chris: And who knows what Brittany needs for that with her sister. Maybe she doesn’t. Right? Yeah, it does. I hadn’t thought of that. And it does make me sad to know that her sister gets so much public hate. She experienced that too.

Kimber: We all have to have more compassion for people. And if this book and if her whole story about the conservatorship and like, what she, you know, is aiming for for people and like, less harassment by the media, whatever, then why are you, uh, dogging people and allowing your fans to like, dog them as hard as they are and not stopping it and saying, like, you guys missed the point.

Chris: Right.

Kimber: Because in my opinion, those people that are doing that to the other players in this story are completely missing the fucking point.

Chris: Interesting. See, this is. I think we’re. It’s interesting being public and consumers and we are completely speculating. We are imposing whatever our thoughts are on this situation. That being said, I agree that high level the book was poorly written and I think any criticism of the book at the time was going to be met with how very dare use and we’re gonna hang you out to dry. And I do have to reiterate what you have said because I think it’s important to say is that going after other players in this story, Jamie Lynn, Justin Timberlake and being nasty to them in a public forum is exactly what Brittanney talked about, harming her as a person. And I did not get that takeaway from the book. So once again, another nod to the poor writing is that that was not a takeaway for me. And I think it wasn’t for a lot of people. And I think now that we have had a little time, culture has settled. It isn’t like the talking point on every station and on every platformeah. It’s like, let’s be a little reflective about what the takeaways from the book are.

Kimber: I guess I just looked at it that way probably initially, like, as I was listening to it, I was getting pissed about, you know, some of the stories and the ways that she was talking about her little sister. Just because, like, I am a little sister.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: To hear if my older sister talked about me like that way, even if it’s deservedly so. Like, if my sister really did hate me and wanted to talk about me that way, it would fucking hurt.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: Um, it would hurt.

Chris: Can we complain? Complain? Can we complain? Can we complain? We only say positive things on, um, the can we Complain podcast. But I’ve also. It’s like thinking about talking poorly about people talking shit about people speaking poorly of others. I used to live in Boys Town in Chicago.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Is a segue here.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: So people, if you want to go, if you want to be around a group of people who are going to talk shit and then talk different spectrums of shit, different shades of shit. It is gay men. Okay. So there are gay men that just trash talk everybody when they’re not ra or. And they will even all the way on the whole spectrum of like, talk shit about them when they’re not there, talk shit about them to their face. Talkit about anybody at all times. Like just problematic. Complain of craziness, like all the time. And then there’s a whole gradient all the way down to like the person who never speaks poorly about anything or anybody. Right. And I find myself in different places on that spectrum as time goes on.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: But like while I was living in Chicago, I had to have a, a reckoning. I had have a moment of evaluation, self reflection, being like, okay, so you’re speaking poorly about some people now. Are you talking shit about these people? Are you talking smack about these people? Do these people deserve to have these things talked about? Are you okay? Are you not okay? And there were some times where I recognized I needed to stop because I felt like I was being a bit gossipy or being a bit too salacious. Saying things where it’s like, okay, this person wouldn’t like me. They wouldn’t like hearing this.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Um, me saying it in this way, regardless of whether. Because I talking about people behind their backs.

Kimber: Mhm.

Chris: It’s not that there isn’t a place for that ever.

Kimber: Right. Everyone needs to get like, you know, stuff off their chest at time.

Chris: People need to vent.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: There’s an example from the Real housewize of New York. There are a lot of people that don’t watch that show and will have no idea what I’m talking about. There are people that do listen to this show that will know exactly what I’m talking about. Uh, Bethany Frankel, Carol Radzell. There’s an episode where they are at a dinner at this restaurant.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And there’s this girl that’s on the show for one season. No one gives a fuck about her. Who cares. She couldow blow away like no one would care. And she’s like, you know, you’re talking bad about me behind my back. And like, this is not what friends do. And Carol Radzawell, who is a, she’s a multi, she’s an Emmy award winning news producer. She has written a New York Times bestseller on Oprah’s like Wish List or Oprah’s Book List. She’s, she’s renowned, she’respected. And she just looks at her and she says something like, you know what? No. This is what people do. They get together and they talk about their friends behind their back. And I just love that she said it because she said it’s so matter of facteah. And so just kind of like you are just dismissing anybody speaking about another person as if it’s just terrible and horrible. Which is not true.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And like, okay, so if you don’t like what someone’s saying about you, if it’s salacious and untrue. That. Yeah, that’s terrible. Call them out on it.

Kimber: But is it harmful?

Chris: Is it harmful? I mean, if it’s hurting you, you also need to think about, like, is it just hurting you or is it hurt? Like, negative. Like, I feel like sometimes there’s reasons to talk about people behind their back.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Like, we all vent about people, right?

Kimber: Yeah, yeah. I feel like you have to, like, know your audience. Like, who are you with? Is it like a safe space for you to talk about, you know, like, another person in your u. Um. Like in your orbit. Orbit. Um. And is it gonna be harmful to that person’s reputation, life, job, relationship? Like. Or are you just venting and, uh, you knowuse everybody is allowed to do that. Everybody gets pissed at people, everybody gets annoyed. We all need to vent and get shit out. Like, God. You know, like, being from a small town, there have been times where I go back and somebody finds the need to tell me something about an ex. Okay, Do I need to fucking know that? No. Do I actually even wanna know that? No, probably not. And, like, sometimes it’s more harmful to me to, like, you know, hear something than to not hear it at all. Like, what is your intention with telling me that? Yeah, sometimes I think people’s intention, like, with gossiping like that to you is to hurt you.

Chris: Okay.

Kimber: Right.

Chris: Like, oh. Like, if they’re telling you something about someone you care about.

Kimber: Yeah. And they’re doing it, like, with, like, ooh, uh, like to see your reaction, like, shit like that. That’s, like, nasty. Like, that’s just mean.

Chris: That is nasty.

Kimber: I don’t know. Like, we’re. Dave and I are both from a small town. Like, we have, you know, old relationships there that we have in the past for a reason. Right. And, like, when somebody is, like, constantly bringing that up when you go back to me, it kind of gets to be like, well, you’re playing both sides. Like, you’re friends with this person. Correct. Why are you coming and telling me this? Like, to get on my good side, to see my reaction, to go back and tell that person. Like, it gets weird sometimes when it’s like that. But if it’s like, me and you and we’re, you know, we used to live in the same building. There was a few people that lived in that building that maybe didn’t do kind things to us.

Chris: Let’s just throwh. Jenna. Let’s just say. Jenna. Jenna, if you’re listening, we’re talking shit about you right now.

Kimber: Jenna, you bitch. No. Yes. I love it. Yeah, let’s say something happened and, you know, you and I get together and we’re like complaining about it. Like, I didn’t really like that. Uh, Jenna took my truly down at the pool and didn’t even fucking ask.

Chris: She always takes my drinks.

Kimber: She always takes my drinks at the pool.

Chris: Yeah, it’s terrible all the time.

Kimber: Jenna, like, what theuck?

Chris: Uh, yeah, Amen. When I was referencing my time in Chicago. Yeah, I lived in a building, I think. Okay, I wonder what. I can’t remember what it was called. There’s like a nickname for it. A lot of gay men in Boys Town, and I want to say it was called like Grindr Hotel or Grindr Motel or something. Like there was some nickname for the building of like, you know, like homo revolving doors, you know, whatever. Um, and there were a lot of gay men and I met a lot of gay men. And that’s why I actually moved to the buildings because I was new to the city and I’m like, I’m going toa meet people and boy, did I meet some people. Now I’m friends with some of those people.

Kimber: Mhm.

Chris: A lot of them I am not because I’m like, holy fucking shit. And there was a dude, there was a guy, that short story, I feel like this is gonna have to come up on another episode. But he pretended to have cancer for sympathy. For sympathy and for like, attention. Now eventually this came out because his lies were so unmanageable. You can’t lie.

Kimber: That’s so fucking weird.

Chris: Uh, you can’t lie about having cancer and manage that. Like, that’s out of control.

Kimber: Is that like a pathological liar then? Or do, uh, you think that’s just someone that just wants attention?

Chris: No, I think it’s. There’s other things because he, like, you know, like, oh, our family has property in Greece and it’s like, you live in the same apartment building as me. This is the other thing. Like when people are neighbors with you and they think they’re pulling the wool over your eyes. Yeah, we lived in a building with a guy who was, oh, I’m a day trader. I’m like, you’re retired and you sell some stocks sometimes. Like you live. But you live in the same building as me. You are not like some multim millionaire and I’m just some dope. Like, trives me nuts. So this guy, of course, oh, everything’s so amazing, Everything’s so wonderful. But he had to lie about everything and all these things, one of which was having cancer.

Kimber: That is insane.

Chris: Insane. Now, of course, this is a facade that took no time to start chipping away because of course, it’s pretty easy. Someone who’s dumb enough to lie about having cancer is also not going to really have that great of a story. Like, he had stage five cancer and we’re like, stage five? Like, girl, all right, like, you’re already in the gr.

Kimber: Grm. Reaper.

Chris: Coming.

Kimber: What the f. It was just.

Chris: Everything was nonsensical. And then he would, like, send us photos from, like, the urgent care with being in like, a gown, being like, oh, I just had my treatment. And it’s like, you’re at an urgent care center, Don, where that is. What are you doing? Like, everything was nuts. And. And he also just lied about so many things. This accumulated.

Kimber: What are we trying to say?

Chris: Accatedla Harris Kamala Harris Cumul.

Kimber: No, accumulated, but the cumulative.

Chris: Yeah. What are we tryinging accumulated into?

Kimber: Get out of town.

Chris: So all of this cumulated?

Kimber: No, I don’t think that’s a word.

Chris: That’s not the word. All of this came together to be anyway. This guy lying about having cancer, lying about so many things. And eventually it becomes too much. Like, it is just too. Like, I can’t be in his presence. I can’t be in his apartment. I can’t be around him. I can’t do anything because’t even want to be. Yeah. Ah, well. And literally everyone’s kind of like. Everyone’s talking about how he’s pretending have cancer. And I’m like, y’all are in on this. You all are in on the lie. Why are we doing this? Like, it’s insane. And so eventually, of course, I, you know, send him some sort of long ass text message that’s just like, I wish you well. Uh, you need some work. Like, this is some. Just so you know, no one’s buying this shit. It’s not bable. There’s no price tag. You couldn’t give it away for free. You’re pretending to have cancer for sympathy. It’s ridiculous. It was just so weird that so many people knew this too. And we were just playing along like, oh, my God. And then he very quickly move it out of the building. Like, all of a sudden, there was just a swift exit. Uh, and he was, like, gone. And I’m like, oh, that’s amazing. I wonder if he told the landlords that he had cancer. So he got out of his leased. Like, who knows?

Kimber: Weird.

Chris: He’s lied about many, many things. So he exits. And then everyone’s of course, like, oh, the Stories. The stories. The crazy, the crazy. This is something where I’m like, the talking shit was real. The gossip was real. Me being like, this dude is a chronic liar who’s making up all this shit and everyone’s backing it up with their examples. Are we talking shit? Sure. Are we gossiping? Yeah. This guy’does.

Kimber: That person deserve it?

Chris: Yes. 100.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: I don’t like the idea of talking shit about someone because they don’t look good in an outfit or some sort of lame surface thing that’s caddty and whatever. But there are times where it’s like, no, the gossip and the shit talking needs to happen because this person is being fucked up as fuck.

Kimber: Yeah. And people like in that situation, it’s like, oh, people need to know this.

Chris: Like, yes, there’s a reason I had to get out of that.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: I mean even the people that I. There are handful of friends I have from there now.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Good people saw the earth people. The vast majority vabid as fuck.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: Like I am a single gay man in my 20s, 30s or 40s, and I’m desperate for approval.

Kimber: Mhm.

Chris: Okay. Well, this guy’s lying about having cancer, but he’s got a great view of downtown.

Kimber: So. Yeah, we’ll go party there 100%.

Chris: And I’m like, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t. Like I was raised right. I can’t do this. Like talking shit about shitty people.

Kimber: Ye.

Chris: Maybe that just like cancels it out. It’s like the universe.

Kimber: Yeah. Being like. Like you’re doing a favor to the other people that you’re talking shit with because you’re letting them know what a horrible person somebody is.

Chris: Yes, yes.

Kimber: I mean, sometimes it’s like in certain instances, like in our previous building, we had, um, um, there was another tenant that was a racist piece of shit that would drive drunk. And there were multiple times where I like took his keys and hitid his keys. And I’m like, not even friends with this person, but I’m like, I’m not gonna let you, you know, hurt other people. Or we all, at one point, I know, had to say to that person, like, get the fuck out of here with that language. And talking about other people like that and being racist. And so we would gossip about this person. Right. But we also told them what to shoot the person they were to their face. Like there’s instances like that too where it’s like, you can’t just gossip behind somebody’s back. You need to confront them with their bullshit.

Chris: Yeah.

Kimber: So that they know that it’s not okay. They’re not getting away with it. And yes, people are talking about it and people have their number and they fucking know that you’re a bad person.

Chris: Yes, absolutely.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: I’ll never forget your husband throwing him out of your apartment after one of his racist tirades. Yeah, it was so good. Yeah, it. It’s like, burned in my memory. It’s like one of those moments where it’s like everyone was, like, clapping and cheering. It was like, yes, we kicked the drunk racist out. Your husband did. And it was, like, phenomenal.

Kimber: Well, first of all, he came over uninvited. This motherfucker comes walking up into our place, doesn’t even, like, have an invite, nothing. He just knows that’s where we live because of, you know, being in the same building for as long as we were. And he didn’t even fucking live in the building anymore, so he thought we were rid of his ass. Remember? We were all like, thank fucking God we throw a party. This guy left.

Chris: Well.

Kimber: So, yeah, he comes rolling on in, and then he also was drinking, like, all of our alcohol. He didn’t have, like, anything of his own. And we all know he could put, like, 50 back. So he’s like, drinking all of our shit out of our fridge. And here we all are playing, like, a fun game. It was Puns of Anarchy, wasn’t it? You had to write down, like, a pun with your words. And every single thing that he was writing down wasn’t even a pun. It was just, like, horrible shit Y and like, racist.

Chris: I, like, give it a label. It was. It could be racist. It could be sexist, it could be homophobic, it be ageist. It could be against poor people. It could be anything.

Kimber: Oh, yeah, against poor people for sure.

Chris: 100% class. Yeah.

Kimber: Yeah.

Chris: And he was so disgusting.

Kimber: Yeah. Pretty much like one of the worst human beings I think I’ve ever met. And so he for sure was not invited to our place. And after, like, the first couple of times he wrote shit, we all called him out, we all yelled at him for it, and we all said, that’s not even funny. Yeah, like, it’s not even like a pun. You’re not even like.

Chris: There was no tongue in cheek.

Kimber: It was right.

Chris: It wasn’t even funny at all.

Kimber: Any of those things would be funny anyway. But, like, he was obviously just using it as a way to be, uh, who he was.

Chris: He was just goading peopleeah.

Kimber: And I said to him, and Dave had gone into the bathroom to go pee. And I said that, like, I’m fucking sick of this. Like, I will not let you be this way, like in my house. Like, we’re all fucking over it. You’re not cute, you’re not funny. And I was like reading him the riot act, like giving him shit. And I said, you’re fucking out of here. It was just so awkward, you know, like he had come over, he was wasted. We should have just kicked him out from the get go. But we all kind of felt awkward, you know?

Chris: It’s so weird to navigate those situations because it’s.

Kimber: That’s really weird.

Chris: He only crossed baby lines until he crossed the line.

Kimber: Yes. So then Dave comes out of the bathroom, picks him up by the shoulders, throws him out the front door and chucks his shoes after him and closes the door and locks ites.

Chris: Yes.

Kimber: And we were just like, thank God, Dave, thank God. And Dave’s not usually the type of person that would do that. No, but he said he like heard me from the bathroom saying like all that I was saying and he was like, that’s it. We’re not fucking doing this anymore.

Chris: It was seamless transitioneah because you were reading him the act like you were let know everything that was not okay. It was like every vision and every look that every person that had had back and forth for the last half hour of uncomfortableness. And then, uh, statement’coming up, coming up, bubbling up. And then you were like, bam, bam, bam. Dave comes out of the bathroom, picks him up, opens the door, lobs him into the hallway, throws his shoes out. Uh, and it was so amazing because yes, Dave is certainly not like an aggressive person. And then also Dave is like taller.

Kimber: Than him, Dave6’six and this person’s like, what? I’m five five, so he’s probably like five’seven maybe. So Dave’s almost a foot tallerah foot taller.

Chris: Okay.

Kimber: This is someone that we all gossiped about in the building all the time because everyone was so fucking sick of his behavior. And we were reporting him constantly also to the building management.

Chris: Y.

Kimber: Uh, did they do anything about it?

Chris: No, no.

Kimber: He would throw beer cans off of our balcony at cars that were parked and people that were walking. He would do shit that was like dangerous and awful.

Chris: We had neighbors talking about how he would open his Juliet balcony into the courtyard of the apartment complex and be just like peeing, just like piss off of it. He would get pissed drunk, he would get blackout drunk. He would fall asleep next to his door. I feel like a neighbor went to his apartment and propped him up off of his door because he fell asleep, like on his sliding door.

Kimber: Yeah, it was to the point where it was dangerous. But, uh, this person also thought it was hilarious to be a drama.

Chris: Yes.

Kimber: Like, they bragged about it.

Chris: Yeah, definitely that like, Wisconsin pride thing where it’s like, I’m m the drunkest person here. And it’s like, right. But it’s 4:30 and like, no one else thinks it’s good to be that drunk right now. Like, what’s going on?

Kimber: Like, you have to out people like that, especially nowadays, because if you don’t say something and do something about it, like. And I’m sure this person still continues this behavior. I’m sure we didn’t have an impact on them at all, but. But at least we, uh, would make our friends know, like, we fucking care. We’re not gonna allow this behavior to go on. And like, as a woman too, like, that’s the type of thing that I love from my male friends is like, if someone’s being sexist, if someone’s like, being nasty towards a woman, like in front of them, that’s the best thing that you can do for the women in your life is like, stand up for them in that moment to those men, that thing. And that’s like where I felt with this person. Like, I, um, am not gonna allow this to happen in front of me. I’m not gonna be complicit in this horrible behavior.

Chris: I feel thankful that I actually was there to witness this because.

Kimber: Because it was fucking funny.

Chris: Well, not only was it humorous to actually watch and like that whole like, karmic justice thing where you’re like, fucking finally.

Kimber: We were all like, cheering.

Chris: We were literally cheering. But a person to be in a space being sexist, being homophobic, being racist, being classist, all of these terrible things. Who the fuck do you think you are? And then to actually be like, called out upon and like, something done just felt so great. It’s like two wrongs do make a right in this situation because this person is nasty and needs to be called out in front of people.

Kimber: It feels good.

Chris: Oh my gosh. Well, I love it. I feel like I got plenty off of my chest today. Thank you so much for gossiping with me, darling.

Kimber: Oh my gosh.

Chris: We weren’t gossiping or talking shit about Britney Spears. We were discussing family and Storytel.

Kimber: Yes, that’I love you.

Chris: I love you too, darling. Thank you for joining us again. Do you think you’re gonna come back?

Kimber: I mean, yeah, if the people want it, they get it.

Chris: Kimber, are you gonna give me what I want?

Kimber: Ye. Always.

Chris: Kimber, are you gonna give the people what they want?

Kimber: Sometimes, yes.

Chris: I, uh, love it. Thanks, honey. Bye.

Can We Complain? Podcast

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